steering question

[hoosier]

Hi- brand new here- I havnt had the pleasure to inspect the steering on a bakbrommer. can someone explain to me please how the steering works? thanks in advance, Hoosier
javascript:emoticon(':roll:')

[hoosier]

close pics of steering would be great!
do the wheels turn like a car? or does it normally pivot between the front end and the basket? any help would be much appreciated, pics would be fantastic.

greetings to all my dutch friends... yes, most americans who come to your country are idiots, I have seen it.... however, I get along with dutch people great, so please help a brother out. peace

[Reinier]

Hey, I assume you don't speak dutch, so browsing through our forums might be a challenge .

To be honest, there are 2 systems which are commenly used,
the pivot system, as found on most carrierbikes(without a motor)





at which the entire front turns,
and the system with which only the wheels turn, comperable to cars.



other more clearer pictures are found on xenomobiles site;
http://www.xenomobile.nl/nieuwe-voorwielophanging-bakbromfiets/

[hoosier]

google translates for me... it is sometimes mixed up though!

man, thank thank thank you for the pics and links, It's just what I needed.
I rebuild european mopeds, and have plenty of welding and fabrication experience, but dont want to build a death trap!
I know the dutch methods of building these is tried and true (for the most part)
but since there arent many bakbrommers, if any, here in the states, it's hard to just look underneath and see.

If I am welcome here, I'd like to gain knowledge and share my own,
thank you for welcoming a newbie

[hoosier]

more safe and reliable for a motor driven bakbrommer would be the tie-rod system similar to whats found on auto's, I assume would be more stable and easier to drive?
looks like a front end from a small automobile, in fact.
maybe a tractor front end even? maybe a lawn tractor front end would work good?
sorry for dumb questions, I know mechanical things well, but I am just now planning and want to be successful and safe.

[Reinier]

Yes, the auto tie-rod system is most commenly used in the bakbrommers in holland, however both systems have(if properly constructed) naloop(don't know the correct english term, im sorry), which causes the wheels to self-correct after an steering action.

The tie-rod system has the advantage that you don't have to move your entire cargo-bin, however it is more difficult to construct. (And some may argue that it's more beautifull or cooler )

You can indeed find the system in most ATV's, Cars and perhaps even tracktors. Be carefull to take the Ackermann principle in respect though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_ ... g_geometry

otherwise your steering will be way-off. The best would be, if you were to salvage an front-end of e.g. an ATV, to pick one with an similar wheel distance(lengthwise) Or, when you are building your own bakbrommer, to make sure the distance between your front and rear wheels matches that of your donor-vehicle.

of course there are other steering geometry issues you have to deal with, do some research on the subject.

And you are more than welcome on the forum, anyone who takes an interest or seeks help is.

Do you have any pictures of your project? im getting quite interested!

[NIX]

Naloop is caster. But the self centering is also caused by a little toe-in alining.

[hoosier]

thanks fellas, I still dont know caster, but toe-in and alignment make perfect sense. Just thought of a perfect donor: a golf cart front end maybe? seems a proper width, a good wheelbase and length too... light enough (I want to do a smaller version driven by a puch moped, so axle needs to be light)

what do you guys think? good donor? golf carts are all over here in the states, I can find an old broken down one pretty easy.. adapt better wheels, etc..

I can make the 2 stroke 50cc motor alot stronger, I have kitted these motors for 80cc, bigger piston, performance exhaust, lots more power, but most of the ones I'm seeing are dirtbikes or motorcycles... hmmm..

[Reinier]

talking about making a death trap, study caster! its all over the internet.

Golf could be possible, anything with an steering mechanism is,
but you might encounter a problem with the fact that an golf is front driven, and that you have the drivetrain which you obviously don't want. my advice: take an rear-driven car for your donor.

Also please take into account that the ackermann principle must apply,
make sure your wheelbase will match.

[NIX]

Hij bedoelt een golf karretje. Van de golfbaan. Golf heet Rabbit in de USA.